with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.
i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.
it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.
Data-Dog... good connection of the dots...
Sometimes it is hard to put in words these obscured realities that affect so many lives, especially if one has not been an elder, read the BOE's letters, elder's books, or dealt with "the Society" directly.
So many people have not seen what goes on behind 'the curtain.'
long time no see.. so, since i last posted on here, jws drove my sister to attempt suicide again (she failed, but it was close) and drove my close childhood friend to actually commit suicide.
i too kmy sister in and helped her recover.
i think she's going to pull through.
conti appeal hearing-summary of watchtowers complaint of errors with plaintiff's reply.
the following statements were taken from the introduction of respondents brief a136641 -attorney richard simons' response for plaintiff.
defendants argue that the affirmative duty imposed by the trial court impinges on their religious freedom.
bumped to the top
im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.
it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.
the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.
Since the Watchtower is very careful about what it writes, the following information would probably need to be introduced as evidence:
- Time slip records of JWs to demonstrate how much control the WTBTS has over JWs,
- Emphasize that the WTBTS pressures elders to practice the “Two-Witness” Rule, contact the legal department before calling local police, and that JWs are indoctrinated not to bring reproach on the WTBTS. The Constitution guarantees that government is not allowed to infringe on an individual’s beliefs but can regulate an individual’s actions.
- Testimony from JWs/ex-JWs in a congregation about how they are influenced by Watchtower propaganda,
- Pertinent Watchtower and Awake! articles about shunning, going in FS, blindly following instructions by the GB and elders, that JWs are the most honest and trustworthy people in the world, etc.
- Testimony from experts about undue influence, BITE control, mind manipulation techniques, and affects of using thought-stopping platitudes.
- Any documentation from the WTBTS like the 1989 BOE letter that demonstrates how the WTBTS controls local congregations.
Absolutely!
The one thing the WT will do, is question ANY statement made by ANY one as if there is no one who knows anything. The least amount of wriggle room, the better.
in a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.
naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.
but i'm interested in hearing yours.
Besty: In reply to my sister's "God's alway's had an organization!", I asked my sister "Who was the organization before Russell?"
HOWEVER, I believe simply asking Besty's: "Why didn't Russell join it?" gets to the heart of the matter much faster...
I would love to see more of these
Great question!
im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.
it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.
the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.
Chaserious,:They constantly drive home that holy spirit is upon the congregation,....They induce a high level of trust,... The difficulty is making a judge understand this...
Exactly!
with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.
i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.
it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.
Yes, ABC news was granted permission, along with NBC & CIR (Center for Investigative Reporting).
so after nearly 15 to 19 years of not attending a convention, i can't recall exactly, i went to one last year.
the brother giving the talk was from bethel and was introduced as a helper of the governing body.
it was a title i never heard of before.
Governing body helper..... Are they sure they didn't get this expression from something pagan ? ..... 'Santa's little helper' ?
well, it's finally happened!.
im no longer an ms.. as many would know from our chats via this forum, i've seen it coming for a while....and while the way it was done stinks, i'm really happy to finally be free!.
(would love to share more details...i will do in time...or perhaps a pm would be best).
Congrats StuckinaRut!
Good synopsis, BillytheEx! I love how you summarize! Something you cannot do in the Borg is vocalize or even 'take' a 'reality check.'
It is good to be able to come to the realization that the "certificates," the "titles," the "degrees" that you get in the WT Borg are simply made up, and that other endeavors/ achievements will "not be taken away with an announcement" !!!!!!!!!
cha ching!
with all the jehovah's witnesses child abuse scandals being reported on by the media around the world at the moment what were the governing body of jehovah's witnesses thinking?.
link to activity page:http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/activities/time-to-get-ready/.
.
To me? It shows that they must get into the mind of "JW's" earlier and earlier in life. Little kids will be pre-programmed enough so that when they "get ready for the meeting", it will be like "playing doll dress up," and "fun".
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
cha ching
